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Author Topic: Private vs. Public Morality  (Read 3744 times)
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diesel
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« on: March 15, 2012, 06:05:47 PM »

An interesting article.....

http://robertreich.org/post/19266068257#.T2DBZQPxkX8.facebook
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valleynative
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« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2012, 07:49:21 PM »

Interesting that the article doesn't mention the investors that lost when the govt took over GM.  It also doesn't mention the govt mandates that banks loan to people based on race, regardless of whether they could afford it.

See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJc8Mzg0C-c&feature=player_embedded
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diesel
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« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2012, 08:15:45 PM »

Interesting that the article doesn't mention the investors that lost when the govt took over GM.  It also doesn't mention the govt mandates that banks loan to people based on race, regardless of whether they could afford it.

See:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJc8Mzg0C-c&feature=player_embedded

The point of the article is that corporate corruption has its' tentacles wrapped around our govt. to the point that we can't trust anyone......
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valleynative
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« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2012, 08:25:16 PM »

The point of the article is that corporate corruption has its' tentacles wrapped around our govt. to the point that we can't trust anyone......

And it could have said that without bashing those who feel that the lack of social morality has an effect on society as a whole.
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diesel
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« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 09:15:18 PM »

And it could have said that without bashing those who feel that the lack of social morality has an effect on society as a whole.

Of course social morality has an effect on our society.  I think the point of the article is that our politicians use issues of social morality to divide us while completely ignoring the corruption all around them.....
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 07:15:55 AM »

I read his opening statement and already know he comes from a liberal mind set.  You can not differentiate between private and public morality.  They go hand in hand, especially in a representative democracy.  The fact that he takes everything away from the individual, and put all blame on the whole is a skewed point of view.  Here is why, we as a voters have strayed away from morality.  Therefore our elected officials have too.  It's a direct reflection on us as voters.  If we as voters did not put up with the public immorality and corruption, it wouldn't happen as often.  It would still happen, we are still humans and that in it's self makes us flawed, but the thought of losing your job would change a lot of the behavior.  The belief that the whole is greater than the individual, instead of the whole is stronger because of the individual has brought this on in my opinion. 
« Last Edit: March 16, 2012, 01:02:26 PM by Forceuser » Logged

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Just_A_Fan
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2012, 07:38:55 AM »

I read his opening statement and already now he comes from a liberal mind set.  You can not differentiate between private and public morality.  They go hand in hand, especially in a representative democracy.  The fact that he takes everything away from the individual, and put all blame on the whole is a skewed point of view.  Here is why, we as a voters have strayed away from morality.  Therefore our elected officials have too.  It's a direct reflection on us as voters.  If we as voters did not put up with the public immorality and corruption, it wouldn't happen as often.  It would still happen, we are still humans and that in it's self makes us flawed, but the thought of losing your job would change a lot of the behavior.  The belief that the whole is greater than the individual, instead of the whole is stronger because of the individual has brought this on in my opinion. 

VERY well said..... Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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OriginalCVFan
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2012, 07:50:50 AM »

The point of the article is that corporate corruption has its' tentacles wrapped around our govt. to the point that we can't trust anyone......

Diesel, if you would have said 'tentacles intertwined with' our government, you would have shown a unique OPENMINDEDNESS that would give me hope that you may be seeing the ENTIRE PICTURE, instead of the PART of the picture that Diesels background and upbringing are biasing him towards!   Very Happy  Just playing with you.

Getting into the article you chose to post, you do know that Reich is the poster boy for Liberalism right?  Posting an article written by Reich on this topic is like posting an article on Feminism written by Rush Limbaugh.  Just as long as everyone understands Reich's position before reading this!

The one paragraph that I concur wholeheartedly with(except the part in red) is this.  
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is moral rot in Americabut its not found in the private behavior of ordinary people It’s located in the public behavior of people who control our economy and are turning our democracy into a financial slush pump. It’s found in Wall Street fraud,and government fraud exorbitant pay of top executivesand exorbitant pay and benefits of government employees, financial conflicts of interest,in government and private sector insider tradingamongst the private sector and their political cronies who also get this benefit, and the outright bribery of public officials through unlimited campaign “donations.”and the politicians that unanimously could easily legislate this out of existence but they dont becuase they benefit as much as the private indivuals who are also benefitting
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.  If Reich doesnt see the moral rot festering out of control in our PRIVATE sector, he is an IGNORANT FOOL. That is a Rush Limbaugh sound bite, and is intellectually dishonest.
2.  Its located in the PUBLIC BEHAVIOR of people who control our economy is very correct, but then one has to define WHO CONTROLS OUR ECONOMY.  First, the government(fed/state/local)  employs more employees than the top 100 corporations put together in one lump.  (gonna have to do the research on this, now im interested haha)The government and the governments actions CONTROL the economy.  The OUTCOME or RESULTS of the economy are then brought into action BY the private sector(corporations and individuals)  

Reich has it backwards.  Do PRIVATE INTERESTS(saying corporations is misleading and incorrect) affect Public interests, absolutely.  However Reichs position is 180 degrees backwards.  The question is 'Who is walking the dog"    For the last 50 years, it has been government with the leash, and private sector being pounded into submission.  Reich(representing the most LIBERAL of Liberals) wants the general uneducated public to think its the other way around, so they can continue to swell their ranks of voters.  This, coupled with the proliferation and growth of free giveaways is a masterful way of gaining control, but at the cost of speeding up the demise of our great country.  
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2012, 07:54:02 AM »

I read his opening statement and already now he comes from a liberal mind set.  You can not differentiate between private and public morality.  They go hand in hand, especially in a representative democracy.  The fact that he takes everything away from the individual, and put all blame on the whole is a skewed point of view.  Here is why, we as a voters have strayed away from morality.  Therefore our elected officials have too.  It's a direct reflection on us as voters.  If we as voters did not put up with the public immorality and corruption, it wouldn't happen as often.  It would still happen, we are still humans and that in it's self makes us flawed, but the thought of losing your job would change a lot of the behavior.  The belief that the whole is greater than the individual, instead of the whole is stronger because of the individual has brought this on in my opinion. 

 Thumbs Up    Thumbs Up    Thumbs Up  Wish I would have read this before i went off on my rant!!!
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diesel
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2012, 08:05:10 AM »

Diesel, if you would have said 'tentacles intertwined with' our government, you would have shown a unique OPENMINDEDNESS that would give me hope that you may be seeing the ENTIRE PICTURE, instead of the PART of the picture that Diesels background and upbringing are biasing him towards!   Very Happy  Just playing with you.

It's funny you used that word......I paused when I was writing that statement looking for that exact word but I couldn't quite get it off the tip of my tongue!  LOL!!!

I agree with your point that Reich is ignoring the moral rot at the individual level.  Just like Rush, he does it to make a point.  Unlike Rush, he does it without calling anyone a slut or whore.... Wink

He may be the poster boy for Liberalism (your words) but at least he doesn't pull any punches when it comes to pointing out corruption within the govt.  I don't care who he is.  The article is thought provoking and I'm glad you guys took the time to read and consider it!  Thanks!   Thumbs Up
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valleynative
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2012, 08:11:00 AM »

I'm glad you guys took the time to read and consider it!  Thanks!   Thumbs Up

Guys?  Only guys read and commented on your post?  What is that word feminists love to use???  Sexist...that's it!  Your comment is sexist, d!   Wink
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diesel
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2012, 08:58:59 AM »

Guys?  Only guys read and commented on your post?  What is that word feminists love to use???  Sexist...that's it!  Your comment is sexist, d!   Wink

I use the term "guys" when I'm talking to pretty much everybody......LOL!!
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OriginalCVFan
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« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2012, 09:54:48 AM »

Guys?  Only guys read and commented on your post?  What is that word feminists love to use???  Sexist...that's it!  Your comment is sexist, d!   Wink

Guys is a term that is a generic 'euphamism'(did i spell that right?)  for everyone.   Wink

Cmon now Valley,  Wink Dont go making something outta nothing.  By making an issue out of this when there WAS no issue, thats called REVERSE SEXISM, and thats just as bad as sexism Embarrassed or Shy

Wait, I think i just confused myself.  (although thats pretty easy to do)
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Just_A_Fan
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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2012, 10:16:04 AM »

Need a few more Winkies in this conversation  Wink

OCVF, liked you analysis of the article. Pretty much spot on. Yes, Reich is the poster boy for liberalism, though why we don't just call it what it is, socialism, is beyond me.  Never understood why people are afraid of using the correct words for things. 

Diesel, Reich is just as guilty with the "name calling" as anyone else....he must have been on his best behavior when he wrote this article  Wink
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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2012, 10:35:47 AM »

Morality breeds moral behavior, just as immorality breeds immoral behaviour.  It starts with the individual.

For example, if I'm preoccupied with buggering the pool boy, it's unlikely I'm going to spend much time worrying about Wall Street.
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diesel
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« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2012, 10:36:07 AM »

Need a few more Winkies in this conversation  Wink

OCVF, liked you analysis of the article. Pretty much spot on. Yes, Reich is the poster boy for liberalism, though why we don't just call it what it is, socialism, is beyond me.  Never understood why people are afraid of using the correct words for things. 

Diesel, Reich is just as guilty with the "name calling" as anyone else....he must have been on his best behavior when he wrote this article  Wink

I don't know anything about Reich.  I liked the article and thought it would spur good discussion.  If you'd like to bring in examples of him "name calling" that's your prerogative.  Despite your preconceived notions of his politics, I think he makes a valid point about corruption within the corporate world and how that corruption has turned our political system into a puppet for big business.
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Just_A_Fan
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« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2012, 12:55:25 PM »

I don't know anything about Reich.  I liked the article and thought it would spur good discussion.  If you'd like to bring in examples of him "name calling" that's your prerogative.  Despite your preconceived notions of his politics, I think he makes a valid point about corruption within the corporate world and how that corruption has turned our political system into a puppet for big business.

You must have missed the last "winkie" on the name calling item.....

As to Big Business "controlling" everything....Nope....big government is the one pulling the strings....it's really easy to blame someone else for one's own corruption which is exactly what guys like Reich and Obama do...."oh, if he just hadn't given me the money none of this ever would have happened", ignoring the fact that he took the money and did whatever he had to to get more or laundered tax payer money with Solindra type schemes.
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Forceuser
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« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2012, 01:03:30 PM »

You must have missed the last "winkie" on the name calling item.....

Hey this is a family oriented site.....look at each others "winkies" on your own time....  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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diesel
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« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2012, 03:02:04 PM »

You must have missed the last "winkie" on the name calling item.....

As to Big Business "controlling" everything....Nope....big government is the one pulling the strings....it's really easy to blame someone else for one's own corruption which is exactly what guys like Reich and Obama do...."oh, if he just hadn't given me the money none of this ever would have happened", ignoring the fact that he took the money and did whatever he had to to get more or laundered tax payer money with Solindra type schemes.

I don't think he's ignoring anything.  He's saying that Big Business and Big Govt. are one and the same.  They are so intertwined that instead of doing something about it, we argue over which is which.  Is it the crack dealers' fault or the crack head?  Six of one, half a dozen of the other.....
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valleynative
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« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2012, 09:20:51 PM »

Guys is a term that is a generic 'euphamism'(did i spell that right?)  for everyone.   Wink

Cmon now Valley,  Wink Dont go making something outta nothing.  By making an issue out of this when there WAS no issue, thats called REVERSE SEXISM, and thats just as bad as sexism Embarrassed or Shy

Wait, I think i just confused myself.  (although thats pretty easy to do)

I use the term "guys" when I'm talking to pretty much everybody......LOL!!

 Thanx...does this mean football and I are part of the club?  Smile
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