Airline seats - your thoughts

[OriginalCVFan]

https://www.yahoo.com/travel/knee-defender-passenger-speaks-im-pretty-ashamed-96565361647.html;_ylt=ApnbcK0Q4H5m4xfg0IS_v7bO2FxH;_ylc=X3oDMTZyZ2g4ODUzBF9TAzExOTcyNjcxNTAEYQMxNDA5MDMgdHJhdmVsIGtuZWUgZGVmZW5kZXIgc3BlYWtzIG91dCB0BGFpZANpZC0zNTA5Mjg0BGNwb3MDMgRnAzU5Y2RkNDQyLTNlMzEtMzEyZS1hMGE4LWZiMTBhZTYyZTE4ZARpdGMDMARsdHh0AyYjMzk7S25lZSBEZWZlbmRlciYjMzk7IHBhc3NlbmdlciBzcGVha3Mgb3V0BHBvcwMxBHNlYwN0ZC1mZWF0BHNsawN0aXRsZQR0YXIDd3d3LnlhaG9vLmNvbQ--

Airline seats, is reclining a RIGHT or Priveledge

Thoughts?

Was going to start a poll but have no idea how too

[diesel]

You should talk to Teddy and Iz.....they know their way around a poll.......or is it pole????  ;)

[izne1home]

Teddy got his pills mixed up and walked around Harrah's with a 6 hour pole.  Nobody noticed though.

Seems to me the chair you are assigned to sit in is your little domain.  Naturally, you need to accommodate your neighbors relative to using armrests, reclining, etc.  I would have to give this one to the recliner.  Using 'knee defenders' would be no different than installing gadgets on the arm rests that made it impossible for your neighbor to use them. 

Having reclining seats is a subtle part of an airline's advertising (no airline would boast about not having reclining seats).  The person sitting in the reclining seat may have a contractual right to use it, and the person sitting behind assumes that risk.  IMO.

[OriginalCVFan]

im 6'4, and i dont need to use the knee defenders.  My KNEES block the chair in front of me from moving backwards, when i sit in REGULAR seat.  ALso, most airlines are eliminating reclining seats, that dont also move forward so the 'recline' actually takes up the space of the person reclining, not of the person behind.  THey are trying to retrofit old planes with these seats, and new planes ALL have these seats, however the retrofit process will take about 4-5 years based upon cost, amoritization and depreciation of the expense of doing so.

I am a platinum flier on american and USAIR, so i always get the Economy PLUS or the extended seating room seats that non-frequent fliers have to pay upwards of $40-$50 a segment to get so it usually isnt a problem, however what i also do, is right after boarding, i introduce myself to the person sitting in front of me, tell them politely that i am very tall, and please, if possible, turn around and ASK ME about reclining your seat prior to just doing it, as you may cause me some  physical damage due to my long legs.   In the last 2 years, i have only had ONE IGNORANT FOOL actually still recline on me, spilling my soda on my computer, and causing me to jump otu of my seat.  THe moron(of indian descent) who was no more than 150 lbs and 5 foot 8, didnt apologize or do anything.  What did OCVFAN DO?   I proceeded to reach over my head, and put all three of the air vents blowing full blast, pointing right at him, with the aid of my two NEW FRIENDS who were beside me, and it was so bad he kept looking at me, but was too smart to say anything.  He even called the attendant to complain, and he was a DICK about the complaint to the attendant,  and here is the best part:

The attendant looked at the guy, looked at me, paused, then said," if you pull your seat into its straight and upright position, those vents wouldnt be blowing on you", and she just walked away.

Dude put his seat upright, and i turned the vents back off.  Was hilarious, people all around laughing about it. A few people clapped.   

IZNE, would be interesting if someone tested the legal ramifications of this.  I disagree, as contract holder for my seat and space, i pay for a space that i can barely fit in, but i do.  When the seat in front encroaches on my space, it then becomes a potential safety hazard, and also, it encroaches on what I, the victim, have already paid for contractually by buying the seat.  Airlines make large people PURCHASE a second seat if they encroach on anothers paid for space.  They do this legally.  From a legal definition, why would the OLD VERSION of the reclining seat be any different. 

Would love to see a jury and judge take this one on.  If you want, i will send you a dollar, and we can initiate proceedings, and I will contract 50% of my take home over to you as your fee.   

[Just_A_Fan]

Easy solution, fly first class  ;)

[diesel]

Easy solution, fly first class  ;)

Do you have to hold your pinky out the WHOLE time or just while you're sipping your tea in first class?  ;)

[BIG SKIN]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1393364687554201

[Just_A_Fan]

Do you have to hold your pinky out the WHOLE time or just while you're sipping your tea in first class?  ;)

In my case it would only be when I'm not curled up asleep and snoring  :D ;)

For any kind of extended flight, more than an hour and half, I take first class for health reasons.....two major back surgeries later, I sit in those small seats any longer than that and I'm a cripple when I get off the aircraft....worth the little extra in cost to fly up front and be able to walk at the end of the flight. 

[izne1home]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1393364687554201

Whenever Teddy and I go to Bangkok, we fly Emirates Upper Deck.  No big deal.  You get used to it after a while...

I'm not sure if a passenger has a right to recline his seat, but the fact that your steward didn't require your little Indian to put his seat up, suggests that the airline might not have the right to demand it, unless taking off, landing, or some other sort of emergency or safety situation.  There is probably something in the 0.1 size font that addresses the issue.

[diesel]

In my case it would only be when I'm not curled up asleep and snoring  :D ;)

For any kind of extended flight, more than an hour and half, I take first class for health reasons.....two major back surgeries later, I sit in those small seats any longer than that and I'm a cripple when I get off the aircraft....worth the little extra in cost to fly up front and be able to walk at the end of the flight. 

We was just foolin' dad...... ;)

[izne1home]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/dont-want-me-to-recline-my-airline-seat-you-can-pay-me.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=1

OCV, you are tall.  You should have paid that little Indian guy to keep his seat in the upright position. 

[laidback]

What you don't understand is, as long as it conforms to FAA safety standards the airlines can do anything they want. Did you read the news story about the flight that was diverted because a man used a recliner blocker & the woman in front of him got mad & they got into a real pissing contest. When the plane landed, law enforcement did nothing stating it was a customer service problem as nothing was directed toward the crew. My point is, flying is a privilege & not a right. Whatever the airline says, goes. If you have a recliner blocker you do whatever the steward/stewardess says. If you don't like it, don't fly that airline. The only way you could get legal IMO, is if your ticket stated something like do not recline, do not use seat blocker, etc. Then I guess you would have a right to pursue it legally. I know nothing about the law, I will leave that up to our resident law person. Is there a minimum space allowed by the FAA? If not there should be. I very rarely recline my seat on an airliner. Of course I'm not that tall either (6'0") so it's not an issue. I would not blame the airlines for eliminating reclining seats just so they can be rid of the problem. I do not have an answer for the tall person issue. I get on an airplane, sit in my seat, keep my mouth shut & do what the crew says. Because of the 3,000 plus flight hours as a Navy air crewman, when I get on an airplane my eyes automatically close & I go to sleep. The Naval aircraft I flew on were low & slow (SP2H/P2V Neptune) & our flights lasted 12 - 14 hours. Putting up with civilian crap is a piece of cake. This is an angry world when people get this upset over such minor s**t.

[izne1home]

Actually, reclining a seat does not create more leg room for a tall (and presumably long legged) person.  The body's geometry actually shifts the hips forward when you recline, pushing a tall persons knees even close to the seat in front.

Tall people should keep their seats in the upright position and maintain good posture at all times. 

[Just_A_Fan]

We was just foolin' dad...... ;)

I know you were..... :D

Was surprised that first class isn't that much more than coach. Took a recent business trip to the southern states and the difference was a couple of hundred in total....lots of time fc isn't sold out and you upgrade a long flight to fc for $50-$60...and there are no baggage fees so it kind of offset things....

[OriginalCVFan]

Actually, reclining a seat does not create more leg room for a tall (and presumably long legged) person.  The body's geometry actually shifts the hips forward when you recline, pushing a tall persons knees even close to the seat in front.

Tall people should keep their seats in the upright position and maintain good posture at all times. 

Josh Barrows article, he actually makes no less than 4 leaps in fact and law, when he spouts his position. very eloquently but flawed nonetheless.  

Also, if a tall person over 6'1 actually sits with proper posture with knees bent at a 90 degree angle, the recline of the OLD TYPE of seat will not function and the knees actually work as a "KNEE PROTECTOR" and you dont have to buy a thing.

HE also misquotes two FALSITIES in his analysis.  She threw SODA, not Water.  Water dries, soda stains.  ALso, the dude DID take them off, and the biotch slammed the seat back anyway, spilling the dudes water, AND still proceeded to throw her soda in his face.  

Just saying, i fly about 80K miles a year, and average 70+ flight segments a year, and have only had ONE moron actually even TRY to recline his seat on me.  My method works very well.  

ALso, from a legal standpoint, the author implies that 'changing the seating rules' would be socially unfair to the rules that have applied for decades.  From a legal perspective, if one were to make that false argument, wouldnt a BAD lawyer be able to argue when the airlines decided to reduce area/space and size of seats, but didnt alter the geometry of the seat recline(until the last 4 years of so since the new seats have been being retrofit) that the RULES Josh is trying to argue exist, actually DONT EXIST anymore DUE to the airlines eliminating proper room for all to exist, as they did under the OLD RULES of etiquette and engineering?

[OriginalCVFan]