League Realignment

[MonarchPride]

I understand the issue that most of you have with "competitive equity" but...

The Central Valley has an issue that is very unique as far as demographics are concerned.  The Fresno/Clovis area and the old NYL is the very best example of this and I know I've mentioned it before.  But I saw first hand what it was like during the last year of the old NYL (1998?) Clovis High was playing an absurd schedule of league games:

Fresno High
McLane
Roosevelt
Hoover

If we went based solely on school populations, all 4 of the above mentioned schools would possibly still be in D1.  Does anyone really want to see that?

I'll agree that with some larger schools there are true "Inequalities" but I truly don't believe the points system that the Section has adopted truly address those issues.

We have had McLane on our schedule for 3 years now and when there are only 7 people in the stands on the opposing side it's obvious there are issues that go beyond what the section or school can do. It wasn't much better when we played them in Fresno, the band was bigger than the crowd.

Those teams were addressed over a decade ago and are right where they should be. It's the constant Yo-Yo of teams that I have an issue with. The 2-3 year cycle of rating teams is BS. They've addressed the issue with Divisional placement when some problems could have been diverted with a simple league realignment.

CSL
CVC-4
Dinuba-2 Guess who has the best odds of winning the league every year.
Kingsburg-3
Exeter-4
Selma-4
Immanuel-5 Why are they here?

EYL
Mt. Whitney-3
Redwood-2
Golden West-4 If they had moved GW in to a Div. 3 League the "Inequality" issue would have been solved.
Lemoore-2
Hanford-2
Hanford West-5 Why are they here?

Four Divisions in one league is ridiculous.

Fix the divisional inequality then move schools around. They did things back buttwards.

[The Eye in the Sky]

I'll agree that with some larger schools there are true "Inequalities" but I truly don't believe the points system that the Section has adopted truly address those issues.

We have had McLane on our schedule for 3 years now and when there are only 7 people in the stands on the opposing side it's obvious there are issues that go beyond what the section or school can do. It wasn't much better when we played them in Fresno, the band was bigger than the crowd.

Those teams were addressed over a decade ago and are right where they should be. It's the constant Yo-Yo of teams that I have an issue with. The 2-3 year cycle of rating teams is BS. They've addressed the issue with Divisional placement when some problems could have been diverted with a simple league realignment.

CSL
CVC-4
Dinuba-2 Guess who has the best odds of winning the league every year.
Kingsburg-3
Exeter-4
Selma-4
Immanuel-5 Why are they here?

EYL
Mt. Whitney-3
Redwood-2
Golden West-4 If they had moved GW in to a Div. 3 League the "Inequality" issue would have been solved.
Lemoore-2
Hanford-2
Hanford West-5 Why are they here?

Four Divisions in one league is ridiculous.

Fix the divisional inequality then move schools around. They did things back buttwards.

CVC: Private school very competitive year in and out.

Kingsburg: Was in D2, traditionally has as much if not more talent/size than anyone in the league. They have a good crop of Freshman and 8th graders will be in the thick of things in a year or two.

Selma: Have always been extremely talented just never able to put it all together until recently. With only a difference of about 100+ students than Dinuba should at least be D3 if not D2.

Exeter: Always has talent/ size and has traditionally been really well coached, especially on both lines. As you mentioned before beat the eventual D3 Champion Emperors with McMaryion. Not too long ago Exter was in the EYL and playing essentially in D2.

Immanuel: Have won multiple Valley Championships, but have fallen on hard times due to lack of a feeder program among other things will no longer be in the CSL.

Dinuba: Yes the lone D2 school, with the largest enrollment. But let's not pretend we are the odds on favorite every year because of it. And play the "why are they in the league?" "Why is GW and Porterville in D4?" victim role. This league has been very competitive for a long time. Selma is still the reigning CSL champs and brought back a lot of players.

[MonarchPride]

CVC: Private school very competitive year in and out.

Kingsburg: Was in D2, traditionally has as much if not more talent/size than anyone in the league. They have a good crop of Freshman and 8th graders will be in the thick of things in a year or two.

Selma: Have always been extremely talented just never able to put it all together until recently. With only a difference of about 100+ students than Dinuba should at least be D3 if not D2.

Exeter: Always has talent/ size and has traditionally been really well coached, especially on both lines. As you mentioned before beat the eventual D3 Champion Emperors with McMaryion. Not too long ago Exter was in the EYL and playing essentially in D2.

Immanuel: Have won multiple Valley Championships, but have fallen on hard times due to lack of a feeder program among other things will no longer be in the CSL.

Dinuba: Yes the lone D2 school, with the largest enrollment. But let's not pretend we are the odds on favorite every year because of it. And play the "why are they in the league?" "Why is GW and Porterville in D4?" victim role. This league has been very competitive for a long time. Selma is still the reigning CSL champs and brought back a lot of players.

As always people think that just because you are from one school or another that that's where you come from with your opinions. I know Exeter is competitive. They beat up on Dinuba when McMaryion was QB and won their Division.

And for the Record Dinuba has either won or had a share of the league title 6 of the last 10 years so it's not a stretch to say they are the odds on favorite. It's factual.

This is a big picture problem that is systemic in all levels with the approach the Section has taken. I've proposed fair alternatives that address several of the issues. They want to preach competitive fairness after all.

[MonarchPride]

Logic and reason is wasted on the ignorant.

[Darth Backer]

I think one way to solve the problem would be to create football only leagues.  That would help the matter to some degree.

[MonarchPride]

That's part of my league realignment that I forgot to mention. They would have to be "Football Only leagues". Not a far out concept.

[The Eye in the Sky]

As always people think that just because you are from one school or another that that's where you come from with your opinions. I know Exeter is competitive. They beat up on Dinuba when McMaryion was QB and won their Division.

And for the Record Dinuba has either won or had a share of the league title 6 of the last 10 years so it's not a stretch to say they are the odds on favorite. It's factual.

This is a big picture problem that is systemic in all levels with the approach the Section has taken. I've proposed fair alternatives that address several of the issues. They want to preach competitive fairness after all.

And that has nothing to do with Coaching and the Culture that has been created? Look at the roster sizes Exeter has 47 and Dinuba 57 with the same type of kids (although Exeter usually has a size advantage). Of the 10 more players we have there are about 15-20 who have never played football before, they just want to be apart of the program, many have told me as such. They see the excitement on Friday nights when the team walks the Green Mile, the band, students section, and how the community rally around the team.

[MonarchPride]

This is a ridiculous argument. To compare a school of 920 to one of 1920 is illogical especially with the same socioeconomic diversity. Drawing a team of 42 from a school of 920 is vastly different than drawing a team of 60 from a school of 1920. I think you are still living in 1990 Eye. It's okay that Dinuba has grown and improved their program. Glory in their accomplishments.

I'm having a hard time understanding why me suggesting league realignment to mirror division placement is hard for you to comprehend as a bad thing or me whining. Is Dinuba afraid to play in a Div. 2 league? I doubt they are.

I have never seen an Exeter team in the past 8 years that was larger than Dinuba so you must be going way back.

[The Eye in the Sky]

This is a ridiculous argument. To compare a school of 920 to one of 1920 is illogical especially with the same socioeconomic diversity. Drawing a team of 42 from a school of 920 is vastly different than drawing a team of 60 from a school of 1920. I think you are still living in 1990 Eye. It's okay that Dinuba has grown and improved their program. Glory in their accomplishments.

I'm having a hard time understanding why me suggesting league realignment to mirror division placement is hard for you to comprehend as a bad thing or me whining. Is Dinuba afraid to play in a Div. 2 league? I doubt they are.

I have never seen an Exeter team in the past 8 years that was larger than Dinuba so you must be going way back.

If you look at my first post on this thread, I clearly stated that I like this idea. It's just that in almost every single thread you are complaining about why is school A in League XYZ and in Division XYZ, that it's not fair for the smaller schools. When anyone with a lick of sense knows it is entirely about Exeter, then you go on and deny that, that is in fact what you are doing. Again, I LIKE THIS IDEA. Look the Central Section is a freaking mess in regards to Division placement, no matter how much whining gets done about it on here, it is not going to change a damn thing. You are literally chasing your tail.

[hardhitter23]

If you look at my first post on this thread, I clearly stated that I like this idea. It's just that in almost every single thread you are complaining about why is school A in League XYZ and in Division XYZ, that it's not fair for the smaller schools. When anyone with a lick of sense knows it is entirely about Exeter, then you go on and deny that, that is in fact what you are doing. Again, I LIKE THIS IDEA. Look the Central Section is a freaking mess in regards to Division placement, no matter how much whining gets done about it on here, it is not going to change a damn thing. You are literally chasing your tail.

So true. Its been a passive aggressive subject about Exeter the whole time.

[MonarchPride]

Only passive aggressive with Eye when he made it an Exeter Vs. Dinuba thing.

If you noticed my league placement for Exeter wasn't to their favor. I've attempted to stay rather impartial and use a bit of logic and reason to come up with a solution.

I guess Eye would move everyone around but the CSL.

[The Eye in the Sky]

Only passive aggressive with Eye when he made it an Exeter Vs. Dinuba thing.

If you noticed my league placement for Exeter wasn't to their favor. I've attempted to stay rather impartial and use a bit of logic and reason to come up with a solution.

I guess Eye would move everyone around but the CSL.

I just don't see why you always complain about Porterville and GW in D4 but no mention of Selma who is about the same size as Porterville and Dinuba. The only thing that I really care to see stay the same is keep Dinuba, Kingsburg, and Selma in the same league.

And as far as the other post about living in the 90's, I meant size as in size of the athletes.

I don't see how I was being passive aggressive when all I did was take exception to the fact that because we have 100 more students then the next largest school we are always the odds on favorite. Then stated the fact that we only have 10 more players on our roster than Exeter. Nothing more, nothing less.

[MonarchPride]

Because you assume that just because I'm from Exeter I'm whining and not capable of taking a logical approach to an issue.

I didn't mention Selma because they are almost certain to move up to D3.

The keeping the league together argument is a non issue. You can always schedule non league games together.

The last time Exeter was in the EYL was nearly 20 years ago, hardly recent history. Exeter's population has been a cozy 10k since the beginning of time while other Tulare County cities have grown. Despite that they are always competitive.

I suppose no matter what I say the simple fact that I'm from Exeter must mean that I'm biased. I'll stop beating this dead horse now and move on to brighter pastures.

[Glenn]

who you Play so for  Did  I Hit Nerve   welcome to the Club   

[Glenn]

Because you assume that just because I'm from Exeter I'm whining and not capable of taking a logical approach to an issue.

I didn't mention Selma because they are almost certain to move up to D3.

The keeping the league together argument is a non issue. You can always schedule non league games together.

The last time Exeter was in the EYL was nearly 20 years ago, hardly recent history. Exeter's population has been a cozy 10k since the beginning of time while other Tulare County cities have grown. Despite that they are always competitive.

I suppose no matter what I say the simple fact that I'm from Exeter must mean that I'm biased. I'll stop beating this dead horse now and move on to brighter pastures.

Now now you Play Nobody  Yet   Get off the vent    when you win  8-9  game come back and talk   to US   

[MonarchPride]

Love you Glenn but way off the mark there. No need to stir up crap that isn't here. See you guys in a few weeks.

[Glenn]

Love you Glenn but way off the mark there. No need to stir up crap that isn't here. See you guys in a few weeks.

your got a good Team 

you know you beat Die Horse  bout  Division   trust ,me   I Agree with ya alots bout GW and Porterville and Selma    and Etc etc   

Dinuba  can Play  in CSl    all their want   Until I figure  out   8 Years how to beat thems   

Rememeber   who got Kingburge   Coach Steel  Fire     CVC   did  when CVC Beat Kingsburg that when the program  went from Great to  Trash     

Every Year   Exeter  styill Look their Man  this the coach  Storm   CSL Stay turned   

Just Like Selma    and  Dinuba   

Dinuba  always going be Favorite  to win CSL    until their  Drop  Talent from their Program     

Kingsburg and Selma     I  Happy  their the Favorite   to win CSL of  CVc  or Exeter  or Immanuel 

Immanuel come back  to CSL Bc Other  Sports  Program  is better  of  Football    their can handle  with Other sports    in this League   

i wish   CIF central Secton Committee Listen   to US  on CVhspreps    and See  How many Fans  have Project  Division  1-2-3-4-5-6   

Buty  right now  we cant Complain  what we wish and want this Division   would be  alike      if we was Run Central section   Board   

i would  Love  changes  alots  of Stuff bout Football   

Like Teams    only  got 25   or less Players and JV  is Loaded  with Talent     or  some your top Players    is  Hurt  and you cant Add Players  from JV Players roster can  help ya  Rest the Season 

I Rememeber  few Year   in Baseball    we could ask Central Section and Board  of CSL    If we could bring up    JV for Varisty baseball 
But we cant  In Football and Basketball  ?

this will be  my Rules  if you have 70  Players  on your Program    you can Switch Players JV and Varisty  But the rules  5 Qtr   a week   

If you Play 2  Qtr  in JV  uyou can Play 3 Qtr   on Varisty   No Matter   if you have Injuryed   or  Just want see Future   Players can Get taste  of Varisty  Level   

yes  Georgia   High school  Football have this Rule   

you  can Action Dress  out your JV Players to Varisty  Make  80  Roster   if you have 40  Roster  or  less Roster   But their Limited  Play 5 Qtr a week   if  your JV   Team run the same Playbook as your varisty  Team 

alots  of peoples have make  great create Division  this past 2 years and present   Buddy   i agree  But   we still  have to Play against thems     
you    on the right  Dirction  bout Division   1,2,3,4,5,6,  what  it need to be   maybe D1,2   Don't think so  their have Easy  Division   Moss  D3 ,4  could go D1,2,3   in Heart beat      with their school Size  Not bc  their have Suck  as year  in Football   season   their be  in there  bc Enroll     

If their have Suck as Year   in D2    then their need Get Better coaches and handle with D1-2  thing       

Division 1  13  could As few  5 More school  to  D1      from D2,3,4 

D2      Same as  D1-2   

D3   Same as 1-2   

which Team,  be take away  from Division   4  that your new league     

D5 can be add to D4,5,6   

  i think we  are   on the same Page bout Division    this need be Fair and everyone   

the only  way  you be  move up   or Down  it Limited   of  Enroll Numbers     

Central Section  Need  have  Limited for Each Divison   if their  go over that Number     their Move up      if ytheir Loss  Staudent  and their go that Enroll for Division  Limited  their go Down   

this the same Rules  in Georgia and Alabama and Fla  and Tenn  Sports for High school   

if  Peoples  get tired the same team  win  valley then their need  Schedule  Around the state  Powerhouse Team    Like DSL and Metrar Dei 

If their See thems  in Playoff   

[Glenn]

Love you Glenn but way off the mark there. No need to stir up crap that isn't here. See you guys in a few weeks.

Just Be glad  CIF Not doing what  other  States  for Playoff  Get rid  Valley Playoff and just add  32 brackets for Divison 1-6    in this State   

Yes  this Way better  Division and Sections for California   we don't have to Facing   Better Powerhouse  Team around the State of California      like DSL and Mater Dei   

we saw   that when Immanuel got spank  in State champs  Game against Mater Dei 30   and  Campiolona  (what their name from last Year  )  Play bakerfield Christian     by 7     

i think we have section  and Division  like Hi Sports  their Ranked  for State  we would have to  play   Other Section Powerhouse Team     

the Valley would be Complain  Loss   every week    to Powerhouse  or Complain have to Leave  at noon  to  Play   7:30 Game   from Travel  Sailnas  to  San Deigo   or LA   every week    or  Central Valley  Travel to Pass Oakland and San Francio   or  San Deigo   or LA  Play Better team   

i so glad  we don't have Classification projections   for  this State  bc alots will Complain  bout No Valley Section Playoff   and   have to Play their owner  Enroll Team their will face  in State Playoff for 32  Brackets   

i wish we could have Classification projections  for Division   

rules  is  If their Divison  1  with 5,000-1,750     

i would Put thems  in the Right Enroll    not bc their have Suck  Football team   or their need go Down bc their cant Handle  their D2-3  Et etc   Stuff   
Most   Team was Move tto  our D4  bc their cant Handle  their owner  Division where their come from   

this  is  Sample   what Central Sectrion  have today but their don't Follow the rules with Enroll   

DIVISION 4 (500-1250) 
Divison 1251-4500 

Yes  the Only way    you can Move up  like a team  in Atlanta  Ga   is praivte  have Rules  Class AAAAA    many years  in Sports     like Football and baseball  and Basketball and Volleyball     their Have 500  Students  their suppose be  in Class AAA   But their Request  be Move up   in Class AAAAA  bc their very good  with Public  Schools   

Like SJM  their be  in D1-2   all the time   bc their very good Football year  in and Out   but  it give them Option   to Move back if their Get bad  to Rebuild their Program  in Sports    to be Successful   

Enroll   Limited be the Key   Move up  or Down    in Division    but that Count all Sports   in that Division  you cant move up  you Dimnote  that league and win valley the only way  you move up  Enroll   Limited  of Divison  Rules   

Look at CVC Volleyball  Team   their Rules  D4 and League Many years  but now   their  going down Slow every year     
But their be all the time  in Divison 4   not be  in Division 2      in Valleyball   

Look at BCHS   their football team be Move up to D3 and Mission Oak   from D4 to D3  their   cant Handle D3  now   

Look at Kingsburg their can Handle D4 teams  then Move from D3 then D2  then back Down  to D3     

in my Book    don't Drop thems Down bc their have bad Year  at D2    that where their Belong with Enroll   

you can Keep the league the same   But  Don't Move team from Division   bc  their have Bad year   

Like Hanford West    i Hear their going CSL  bc their cant handle  with Golden west  and Redwood and Hanford and Lemoore   School   and Tulare Union     their  in the Right Enroll with the Big School  Move thems D3-2     

Look at Chowchilla   their was  in D4  But this season  D3 with BCHS and Mission and Kingsburg and Etc etc     

Look at their enroll  SCHOOL:

Chowchilla
CBEDS:

1,066 

teiur  on the Boardline    D3-2  with thewir Enroll 

yes  CVC Could be  in D6  just Like 500- 0    teams   

Look at all the fact  If Central  Section   was not Listen to all Atheolic Dirctor  Team will be  in the right place    say Suck  it up    Play your Division   then Get Better Coach  or Better Players

my Former  High school   is 1500  Students  their Play with Most the Big Boys Power House  Team every year    Cario and TCC and  the List go  on for thems  but thweir not Complain wish their was  in their Own League with Local  team    Yes  it be better travels   of go out of town every weekend  or   every 2 a week Out of town   

[Glenn]

Love you Glenn but way off the mark there. No need to stir up crap that isn't here. See you guys in a few weeks.

Like GHSA   for Georgia 
their Come  out   2 New staff  for SCHOOL:
Classification projections   in 3 Year 

2 year  ago  their Did Classification projections   for Only Class A 

1) Public School  Playoff 16 brackets   the  only way  you get  in Playoff  the Board  Vote  for seed Like CIF and Central section do today  here

2)  Praivte School Playoff  16 Brackets with 18  Schools   in Class A   

Have not heard any Complian bout Public against praivte School   at all  this past 2 year   

Public have their Owner Playoff and praivte school  their Owner  Playoff bracket   in Sports   Football,Basketball,baseball and Etc etc   

why cant we do  it bc  it like 4 Praivte School   in Central valley    here     Immanuel and CVC and Fresno Christian  i cant think 4 one 

how you Like that Match up   only praivte School  Playoff Final 4 teams battele Get  in Valley champs Game    every year     

it will Get Old story     in Fast way   on Dec.1  CVC VS Fresno Christian   or  CVC  VS Immanuel  or Immanuel VS Fresno Christian  But their will Enter the State Playoff the system CIF got today   

2)  GHSA  got up Super 25  for Class 7A  that for all the Powerhouse  in State Georgia can Handle  each  other  with their Owner League  for Playoff time   

  but  If CIF   what do like other State have 32  or 64 Playoff    for California  this be Crazy    have 64 team  in Division  1,2,3,4,5,6,7,   on and On for State Playoff and Get rid  Valley bracket   

it be the same week  if you Enter  State Playoff without Valley Brackets 6 week     from Nov  4-5-6   

CIF and all Section  will Put  in Seed   for the state  here   1-32  or 1-64  Seeds   that will take  Few Day  from Saturday  morning to Sunday  afternoon   when Coaches  know the seed and trades Films  other school  around the state   

Just Like Alabama    High school  Football State Playoff  Auburn Unversity  the Home  of State champs   why there ?  bc that  Close Middle the State of Alabama   

why Atlanta Ga Host State Champs  when Team    come from South Georgia   to Atlanta Ga for State Playoff  bc   1)  all the school   in Atlanta  always get their way  with GHSA   think everytime going be from Atlanta going be  in State Playoff    their can Sleep  in teir own Bed   

Like Here   Fresno State be Home for State  Champs game for all Divison  bc that  in the Middle   of State of California   
for Northern and Southern  Schools  can Meet half way   in Middle the State  not for One Team have to travels  all the way  to Sac State for State champs Game   

see my Point   here   
Yes   we be with this Old System  for here  Before   i got here    it went from 4 Team to  8-12 Team State Playoff  we Get there But  it slow System to Fix now   

But  i wish  we go from Regaulr Season to State Playoff Season  here   bc  it be the same weeks   but  CIF and Hi Sports Ranked  the top 16  team be your seeds    But CIF will make that Decision  on Seeds   after Saturday  morning   

[the football guy]

Central doesn't need 1 more high school!! They have the best set up in the whole valley... 3 middle schools feeding into 1 athletic program..
all 4000 kids do not attend East campus, over 1500 kids attend west campus, but all play for 1 team, you gotta love it!! If it were up to me I would not change a thing

[the football guy]